tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7072440028440011959.post5846029433051443578..comments2024-03-13T04:13:58.380-04:00Comments on Education Outrage: Reading is no way to learnRoger Schankhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14567989582447087635noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7072440028440011959.post-35967470516326177952015-07-28T20:14:09.149-04:002015-07-28T20:14:09.149-04:00Very interesting read, thanks for sharing.
Why do...Very interesting read, thanks for sharing.<br /><br />Why do you think highest achievers like Elon Musk etc are voracious readers and also recommend people to read books?<br /><br />Here's Elon Musk on the importance of reading:<br /><a href="https://youtu.be/NG0ZjUfOBUs?t=38m20s" rel="nofollow">https://youtu.be/NG0ZjUfOBUs?t=38m20s</a>Mark Shttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04533276159464864039noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7072440028440011959.post-36970369140341005632015-07-26T08:59:53.610-04:002015-07-26T08:59:53.610-04:00I could not help but be bemused that you wrote thi...I could not help but be bemused that you wrote this article for us to read about how reading is no way to learn.hoosjonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16017967641262880983noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7072440028440011959.post-19019745424776969852015-07-14T14:09:02.637-04:002015-07-14T14:09:02.637-04:00English is ambiguous. When we say learning, we cou...English is ambiguous. When we say learning, we could mean a LOT of different things. Reading is something we do for many purposes. Using both in the same headline makes my logic circuits buzz:) English is ambiguous. When we say learning, we could mean a LOT of different things. Reading is something we do for many purposes. Using both in the same headline makes my logic circuits buzz:) xI see where you're leaning but there are a slew of problems whenever we talk about learning and reading as binary absolutes.<br /><br />Reading for _________.<br />When we say learning, we mean _________.<br /><br />Neither of these has an on or off state. No surprises. Reading can be helpfully associated with a variety of contexts. There are some cases where textual artifacts are a pretty darn good tradeoff. Scaleability, durability, persistence. On the other hand, this high efficiency can be extremely ineffective for anything beyond surface exposure. Deep connections and real perspective shifts come from conversation, feedback, and long term relationships with people, challenges, and context. Reading gives us things to talk about and shifts the detail load, in some cases, from having to talk about everything to having things to talk about when we show up. I would even go so far as asserting that a reading experience can be a conversation in itself. <br /><br />Figuring out where we balance the efficiency and effectiveness of text-based communication is a huge challenge. Rather than an extreme X doesn't help with Y, maybe we need a better lexicon or pattern library to help folks make decisions on what works where?Stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09587081454369718677noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7072440028440011959.post-28509191237926787672015-07-13T21:46:39.803-04:002015-07-13T21:46:39.803-04:00Provocateur indeed. I love it. Just like the aca...Provocateur indeed. I love it. Just like the academic researcher commented, reading is great if you "do" research-read, write, publish, read, write, publish. As you have said numerous times, the way we do learning now is a great if you want to be an academic, which is why I have such a hard time negotiating, improvising, connecting, compromising, creating, etc. love to read, am a literacy volunteer and build Little Free Libraries in my community. Reading beats TV I think, simply because I hope. The good news is that there is so little reading going on nowadays, that we don't have much to lose. The bad news is we haven't embraced what you have been writing about for quite some time. I am anxious to see how it unfolds and why because I don't know what it is going to take, other than just flat out turning your back on what is..and there are very few back-turners out there.Tim McClunghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11090046737464170923noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7072440028440011959.post-37035688646755074312015-07-13T21:46:16.160-04:002015-07-13T21:46:16.160-04:00Provocateur indeed. I love it. Just like the aca...Provocateur indeed. I love it. Just like the academic researcher commented, reading is great if you "do" research-read, write, publish, read, write, publish. As you have said numerous times, the way we do learning now is a great if you want to be an academic, which is why I have such a hard time negotiating, improvising, connecting, compromising, creating, etc. love to read, am a literacy volunteer and build Little Free Libraries in my community. Reading beats TV I think, simply because I hope. The good news is that there is so little reading going on nowadays, that we don't have much to lose. The bad news is we haven't embraced what you have been writing about for quite some time. I am anxious to see how it unfolds and why because I don't know what it is going to take, other than just flat out turning your back on what is..and there are very few back-turners out there.Tim McClunghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11090046737464170923noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7072440028440011959.post-9599811211452622792015-07-13T20:48:12.267-04:002015-07-13T20:48:12.267-04:00What if we read, and then we engage with the autho...What if we read, and then we engage with the author in writing? I think it helps us remember and internalize what we read. Conversely, talk can be hard to hard to retain. At the end of a conversation, there's nothing to review except whatever was caught in the brain's sieve. <br />I think you know these things and are being delightfully provocative. Thank you!Tina Bessiashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02078209161501281061noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7072440028440011959.post-72321084066468063692015-07-13T18:36:27.334-04:002015-07-13T18:36:27.334-04:00Hi, Roger. Great article.
I have been following y...Hi, Roger. Great article. <br />I have been following you and reading your books over the last three or four months. I am still reflecting on your ideas and I am beginning to distrust myself a bit because I agree almost completely with you... <br />I wonder if you would let me translate this article into spanish and publish it in my blog (refering to your blog, of course).<br />It would be an honour to do so, but please feel free to say no. <br />Thank you very much and best regards. <br /><br /><br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17629100464511243926noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7072440028440011959.post-67435736711540643532015-07-13T12:14:50.885-04:002015-07-13T12:14:50.885-04:00Are there enough mentor qualified to take the plac...Are there enough mentor qualified to take the place of the traditional teacher role? Why is it so difficult to find a mentor, maybe because I still don't know what I want to be when I grow up?Paul Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15568112951460383067noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7072440028440011959.post-76542087420654484422015-07-13T07:37:58.873-04:002015-07-13T07:37:58.873-04:00I suspect that the more complex the task, the more...I suspect that the more complex the task, the more that you can only learn properly by doing with a mentor or copying. Think of flying a plane. As Roger knows, I am venturing into the world of chickens. I have all the books. But nothing can replace my working directly with them and seeing what behaviours I need to assume to get the best result from them. When I have a specific problem, I call my Chicken mentor. BTW bribery works very well. We have a local rugby team. In a rugby game there are 30 players on the field making up a very complex situation. It is amazing to see the adaptive process in action where the teams flow faster than conscious thought will allow as the situation changes all the time. <br /><br />I enjoy reading. But nothing that I have learned that is useful or complex has come from a book. <br /><br />But our entire education system is based on the book and often on teachers who have all but a surface knowledge of the topic. So if challenged, they usually have to revert to power and control. <br /><br />My own advice to my own children who have their own small children now is to find out what their kids like the most and find a way to have them learn more practically. For the chances of changing the school system are I think zero. It's up to each of us to add this ancient and proven method into our lives.Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14970451430628742800noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7072440028440011959.post-14729276378420899992015-07-13T01:04:59.192-04:002015-07-13T01:04:59.192-04:00I think the headline has a kernel of truth. It jus...I think the headline has a kernel of truth. It just goes too far. Reading is a last-resort way to learn; however, it is a lot better than nothing. I work in academic research, not education. Most of the information here is implicitly present in the way the research community goes about their work. We attend seminars, organize workshops and conferences, and meet face to face to discuss breakthroughs. We also publish articles to document our progress, but active learning in our field does not take place primarily through written articles. Beginners, graduate students, and outsiders sometimes have difficulty understanding the role of social activities, because they think articles are the main repository of knowledge. In truth, we write articles because articles have some advantages over oral communication, most notably reach and permanence. What they do not have is efficiency, immediacy, depth, and feedback. Mature researchers understand how to balance the two approaches. I agree that reading is overrated. Nevertheless, it is still valuable. Even in this hyper connected era, mentorship and personal connection are in short supply.DJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07812488283530213316noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7072440028440011959.post-35520585019929785982015-07-12T07:54:47.696-04:002015-07-12T07:54:47.696-04:00Thanks for this excellent analysis, Roger. I may h...Thanks for this excellent analysis, Roger. I may have learned something from reading it. I'll let you know if I notice a behavioural change ;) Reading and lecturing originated in a world of information paucity where communication channels were a limiting factor. Mass education demands post-WWII (especially for returning veterans) was, I believe, a major factor that set back effective training. The only tool in the box of educators and bureaucrats was the 'course' - designed and delivered by learning specialists who had been inculcated in content-centric practices. The concept of experience-centric learning was alien to most.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06730620261990420301noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7072440028440011959.post-33352216069974751602015-07-11T16:20:52.274-04:002015-07-11T16:20:52.274-04:00all I am talking about is the best way to learn; y...all I am talking about is the best way to learn; you have made my point for me; you get the book because you don't have a mentor; we need to change our model of education so that we try mentors first and not booksRoger Schankhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14567989582447087635noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7072440028440011959.post-41979686921854119092015-07-11T15:23:52.271-04:002015-07-11T15:23:52.271-04:00If I want to learn sales, the best way is to have ...If I want to learn sales, the best way is to have a pro salesman watching me over my shoulder as I am trying to sell something.<br /><br />Is it not also effective for me to read a book by a master salesman and put the actions and the psychology in the book into practice myself? The book shows me a roadmap on what to do, then I do it, then when I have a question, I try to find someone else (a real person preferably, but a book is sometimes all that I have available) to answer my question. <br /><br />Using reading in this way, is it not effective? ERhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10535914262718573775noreply@blogger.com